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Mcintyre and his closed society
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:31 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




I would like to call your attention to the upcoming Board of Directors Meeting agenda.

The proposal that is on the agenda for preliminary discussion has been discussed in the forums here on the message board in one of the public forums to see what might be needed or useful to move such an idea forward.

The proposal is on the BOD agenda for 10:15 on the 26th of June.

The prior discussion here on the Message Board is Discussion of published auctions before sale..

I am opening this topic here because we do not discuss BOD matters in our forums that are open to the public.

We do not have open debate for attendees at the BOD meeting, but all are welcome to attend and observe the BOD discussion.

WHAT ABOUT THOSE OF US NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND OR GIVE USEFUL AND GOOD SOLUTIONS TO YOUR MB AUCTION DISCUSSIONS????

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 am Reply with quote
Bryan
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3487
Location: OH




What a prick.

As if the overwhelming lack of support on the MB wasn't enough, now he continues to push his agenda at the Board level.

This guy is a real human piece of toilet paper.

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Bryan Eyring
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:32 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3422
Location: Indiana




I will, of course, discuss the 149 POV.

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John Cote (Member #105)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




John, do you have a POV on this issue? Are you familiar with it?

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:15 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH CONSUMMATE INSIDER TOM TERRIFIC...........

"I have been asked to select a committee to study the implementation and given one year to determine the best approach and select some auction houses as first round partners. The committee will report its results to the Board of Directors. My goal is to try at least one and preferably more auctions during the fall season.

I am still clearing up loose ends from the convention and I will be going to Texas next week with family, so it will be a little while before I can form a committee. I hope to have a few skeptics on the committee to ensure that we do not ignore the danger spots.

Since we are designing an NAWCC Business Activity, further discussions will need to be in the members private area of the Message Board or some other venue. It is not appropriate to publish the details of a new business to the world."

..............AS THE CHOSEN ONE RAMS ANOTHER IDIOTIC IDEA DOWN OUR THROATS!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:17 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




Spiriling out of control...................."In the discussion with the BOD both alternatives were discussed. I would prefer it be a public facility but that is to be decided. It could also be premium based with an admission fee for each auction or some other premium arrangement."

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:54 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3422
Location: Indiana




Jon wrote:
John, do you have a POV on this issue? Are you familiar with it?


Sorry for the late response. I brought up the 149 view...mentioning 149 by name when Tom did his presentation. Tom's idea was interesting to the BoD because of the potential amount of income it could bring in from the auction houses. There were potential legal issues brought up by BoD members and by our legal counsel.

The BoD authorized Tom to form the study committee. Tom asked me, as a skeptic, to be on the committee. I have not given him an answer yet. I am honestly not sure why the auction houses would want to pony up the amount of money Tom thinks they would to have their items discussed on the NAWCC Message Board. If they did pony up in the amount Tom predicts, it would a sizable amount of money for the organization and we need it. The problem with the money part is that Tom is also proposing yearly or bi-yearly training sessions for moderators. These sessions, as proposed would be actual physical meetings so there would be expenses involved to offset any income to at least some extent.

Without the money I am not really for this as an auction discussion only part of the forum. With the money I am just not sure. Without the money I might be for a discussion of any item for sale if we could somehow be sure were were not liable for legal action. Items for sale are a staple part of many online forums including Hodinkee and others.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:42 am Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2334
Location: Frankfort, KY




John,

I see no harm in a feasibility study, but the proposal as I see it does have a bunch of red flags.

I think realistically $100K is extremely optimistic for the income from this.

A quick back of the envelope says that Jones-Horan's gross from the last sale was not much over that. Would they really pay $10-20K to the NAWCC(just extrapolating from the auction houses mentioned) for the "priviledge" of having the items in their sale picked apart?

Also, I'm concerned about the need to train the moderators at a physical meeting. From preliminary discussions(not the proposal I read, which I'm assuming is what was submitted to the board) it seems as though the moderators would be given an almost unprecedented level of control over the discussions. That scares me also, and I'm concerned that, regardless of the amount of training, that a "rogue" moderator could use that to influence sales. Putting that aside, though, is there really anything that requires the participants coming to Columbia that couldn't be handled through webinars, etc? That would seem to eat up a big chunk of money.

That's also not addressing the legal side of it-there again the "even if the organization wins, we lose" aspect.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:09 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3422
Location: Indiana




Ben,

I share your concerns but I am not sure I know exactly what you mean by the last line... "That's also not addressing the legal side of it-there again the "even if the organization wins, we lose" aspect."

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:10 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5380




John et al -

I am in favor of allowing this topic to be researched and discussed. It seems the #1 complaint about watches on the open market is the lack of knowledge and or documentation.

As I do privately, discussion among peers do help clear up the pros and cons of a specific watch, rather than saying a projected sale value may be, but it is possible to steer clear of valuations for items in an upcoming auction.

As far as "kickbacks" go, I am not sure how Ben came up with his estimate for what J and H made at the last auction. I came up with 221,000 gross after sales.
But it doesn't matter, These guys are pros, and it involves talking up their merchandise. I cannot see how they would chip in to a forum that will literally pick apart their merchandise. If it was done in the way of advertising, that's different.

Again, I dont see how that would make any significant difference as many of the NAWCC members are on budgets, and not all are watch collectors.

I dont see the harm in discussing this, hopefully it will get presented in several stages for member feedback before the final conclusion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:36 am Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2334
Location: Frankfort, KY




John,

When I talked with Tim Orr before the BOD meeting, he said that the last time something similar had come up(several years back) it was effectively killed because of legal concerns. Basically, as it was explained(and it makes sense to me) if someone-say a consignor-felt that they'd been wronged/had the price supressed/etc by discussion board on the NAWCC, they could certainly try to bring suit. The NAWCC would most likely WIN any lawsuit, but the cost to defend against it would probably wipe out any potential profit from the board in the first place.

That's what I was commenting on, if that makes any more sense.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:35 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3422
Location: Indiana




I understand and I agree and this was certainly discussed at the BoD meeting.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




A MUCH BETTER PLAN TO RAISE MONEY would be to do a for sale site on the MB AS I HAVE SUGGESTED BEFORE HERE AND TO WILCOX!

Member only site for sales with up to a month listing or small fees. Easily manageable and guaranteed income.

Pimping certain auctions is absurd and the same as touting various dealers sales sites or eBay offerings.


BTW, what happened re those many other ideas you, John, were goig to take to the BOD meeting?

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:06 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3422
Location: Indiana




Jon wrote:


BTW, what happened re those many other ideas you, John, were goig to take to the BOD meeting?


I took a list of issues and talked about most of them during a membership/chapter relations discussion. The result is that we will be re-formatting the makeup and mission of the Membership and Chapter Relations committees including possibly combining them and having Board leadership for the combined committee. I think things will start to happen soon enough. I will probably be able to give more details after the next BoD meeting.

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John Cote (Member #105)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26119
Location: Boston, Ma




[quote="Jon"]A MUCH BETTER PLAN TO RAISE MONEY would be to do a for sale site on the MB AS I HAVE SUGGESTED BEFORE HERE AND TO WILCOX!

Member only site for sales with up to a month listing or small fees. Easily manageable and guaranteed income.

Pimping certain auctions is absurd and the same as touting various dealers sales sites or eBay offerings.


AND?

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mcintyre and his closed society
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