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NAWCC National
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:06 pm Reply with quote
S Mercer
Chapter Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 1796




Posted in the Members Only Section of the NAWCC MB:

By Mike Dempsey

Quote:


I guess I will try to do this again. I’m concerned about the cost of attending the convention. I think it’s overpriced, but like anything else, I and all other members can make the decision to attend or not, and not be sad about it. My real issue is the continued monetary burden we put on the backs of our members. For many of our members, with these escalated costs, the only connection they have with the NAWCC is the bulletin. No wonder we are losing members. The national convention should be a place to socialize with other members from all over the country and share a passion.

As costs to the NAWCC seem to continue to escalate, the only response we get from our leadership is to raise dues and admissions. Why do we elected and appoint “experts” to the board. I’m sure we could elect or appoint anyone if all we are looking for is someone to raise dues or raise the admission to our “crown jewel” show. Does our leadership have any ideas beside these? I just looked at the AWCI convention web site. They have a large group of corporate sponsors that have donated to their national convention. Has the NAWCC ever tried or thought of doing this? How about naming rights. I would bet some of our business members would like to sponsor some part of the mart room, banquet, or exhibit. Can’t we get some forward, “out of the box thinking” instead on the status quo?

Maybe we should just raise the dues to $500.00 and the cost of tables to $1000.00 with admission to attend $500.00 and this will cure all our money problems!




I can certainly agree with a few of points made above.

1. The continued monetary burden that is put on the NAWCC Members is never ending.

2. The only response we see coming from the NAWCC BoD for rising costs are increase dues or reduce the members’ benefits.

3. The BoD members have no original ideas to raise funds from outside the organization.

It seems that for the BoD, they think that all the regular members of the association are cash cows. What they forget is in hard economic times there is a breaking point where people have to decide what has to be paid: the necessities or indulgences. The higher the costs of the association, the more members leave since it is an indulgence.

The other thing that the BoD forgets or doesn’t realize is:

The organization needs members; the members do not need the organization.

Which brings me to the National.

Before I start, I do understand that costs have to be covered for the venue. I also understand that it is a personal decision to attend.

Pre-Registration – 50.00, Early Bird – 50.00, 1 table - 60.00, awards banquet – 50.00, pre-convention reception – 30.00. So far that is 240.00 for one person even before you arrive. Add your spouse for the pre-registration, awards banquet and pre-convention reception and the cost is up to 370.00. At a minimum a person will need four nights hotels at a cost of 116.00 per night (not including taxes) – 464.00 and 5 days of meals. Since most hotels have free continental breakfasts I will only add a conservative 50.00 per day for lunch and dinner for a total of 250.00. So before you ever arrive, book flights if you have to fly, or buy gas to drive if you live close enough your costs are going to be at a minimum 1,084.00 plus taxes.

If you want to do some tourist items, have drinks with friends, and make the National a social visit, it just adds to the cost of attending.

Older members who are on retired and on fixed incomes find it hard to justify the costs of attending. Younger people who are starting their lives on their own, starting a family, etc., and are making a lower income cannot justify the indulgence of a hobby.

As suggested in the quote, if the BoD could actually think outside the box and come up with ideas to raise funds and lower costs for members, maybe, just maybe, membership would start increasing and members would stop grousing about increased dues and costs and current members might decide to stay instead of cancelling their memberships.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2258
Location: Frankfort, KY




Steve,

I'm largely in agreement with your sentiments, but want to make one small correction.

Early bird admission, when offered, is done as an alternative to buying a table. If you buy a table, you are granted "early bird" admission status which has historically been the(not enforced) "set up, no trading" time. When I registered for the National last summer, I wrote a check for $110-one admission and one table. For the past several years, this has been the aproximate cost. It's not cheap, but National venues are generally larger and nicer than regional venues so IMO the cost is not overly out of line.

Of course, adding in the other activities can add up. I'm fortunate in that I don't have get a hotel room for the National this year, but that does add a lot. I will likely have several meals with friends, which of course will add to the cost.

As far as the early bird thing, my local regional currently charges $35 for a table(+registration cost, $15 or $20 depending on pre-reg or at the door). We often sell all our tables and in fact this past year we sold more tables than we had available because people paid for a table but didn't get one assigned specifically so that they could get in early. We end up with a fair number of empty tables. I've been advocating going to a $30/$40 split-$30 for early bird and $40 for a table.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:43 am Reply with quote
S Mercer
Chapter Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 1796




Ben_hutcherson wrote:
Steve,

Early bird admission, when offered, is done as an alternative to buying a table. If you buy a table, you are granted "early bird" admission status which has historically been the(not enforced) "set up, no trading" time.


Ben

I have never paid for early bird admission. I just wait for the regional to open. I have been to regionals as a table holder and at some of them the organizers let the table holders set up and then tell them to leave the mart room until the mart opens. They try to control the trading/buying until the mart actually opens.

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Waltham Model 83 Watches
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:38 am Reply with quote
darrah
Chapter Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 4152
Location: Houston, TX




The banquet and social are not really necessary and admission and table fees are the only thing most would be concerned about. I would never consider paying for an 'early bird' entry as I spend plenty during the normal session. As for the hotel, food etc., well, that is what one would expect to pay when going on a trip or vacation. I have never been to Disney Land but do believe, based on friend's comments and internet searching, that a National Convention's costs would be considered quilt reasonable when compared to it. Some can afford to go and some can't and I suspect that is the way it has always been.

I personally think the banquet is a bit high and Early Bird fee is a scam for the greedy. Empty tables not being used should be resold after a four hour period unless the current holder has notified the registration desk of a delay.

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Darrah Artzner
Ch 15, 124, 139, 149, 168
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25173
Location: Boston, Ma




There are other reasons for high costs for the average member or collector attending national shows not discussed--LOSS OF INCOME FROM ONES JOB.

So we have:

loss of wages

air fares (for most, unless large clock displays)

lodging

food

tips

cab fares

car rentals (if applicable)

parking

convention costs (entry, tables, show case rentals & lights if preferred)

NAWCC membership

pre show costs, if one attends these

UNLESS the convention is close by or in ones town, these costs add up. Dealers can deduct all as expenses, but the hobbyist is saddled with most of these charges.

All of this adds to the high cost of an already expensive hobby (for many seniors, retired folks or those on fixed incomes).

As I have stated many, many times before--the n/a should welcome in members reasonably; raising charges only drives the life blood of the assoc.--MEMBERSHIP. Without increased membership, all that will be left will be those running this ship aground! And, the clock guys can all stand around and talk to each other.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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Re: NAWCC National
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:15 am Reply with quote
Brian C.
Chapter Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 648




S Mercer wrote:
Posted in the Members Only Section of the NAWCC MB:

By Mike Dempsey

Quote:


I guess I will try to do this again. I’m concerned about the cost of attending the convention. I think it’s overpriced, but like anything else, I and all other members can make the decision to attend or not, and not be sad about it. My real issue is the continued monetary burden we put on the backs of our members. For many of our members, with these escalated costs, the only connection they have with the NAWCC is the bulletin. No wonder we are losing members. The national convention should be a place to socialize with other members from all over the country and share a passion.

You can buy an Auburndale timer on fleabay for $1,084.00.

As costs to the NAWCC seem to continue to escalate, the only response we get from our leadership is to raise dues and admissions. Why do we elected and appoint “experts” to the board. I’m sure we could elect or appoint anyone if all we are looking for is someone to raise dues or raise the admission to our “crown jewel” show. Does our leadership have any ideas beside these? I just looked at the AWCI convention web site. They have a large group of corporate sponsors that have donated to their national convention. Has the NAWCC ever tried or thought of doing this? How about naming rights. I would bet some of our business members would like to sponsor some part of the mart room, banquet, or exhibit. Can’t we get some forward, “out of the box thinking” instead on the status quo?

Maybe we should just raise the dues to $500.00 and the cost of tables to $1000.00 with admission to attend $500.00 and this will cure all our money problems!




I can certainly agree with a few of points made above.

1. The continued monetary burden that is put on the NAWCC Members is never ending.

2. The only response we see coming from the NAWCC BoD for rising costs are increase dues or reduce the members’ benefits.

3. The BoD members have no original ideas to raise funds from outside the organization.

It seems that for the BoD, they think that all the regular members of the association are cash cows. What they forget is in hard economic times there is a breaking point where people have to decide what has to be paid: the necessities or indulgences. The higher the costs of the association, the more members leave since it is an indulgence.

The other thing that the BoD forgets or doesn’t realize is:

The organization needs members; the members do not need the organization.

Which brings me to the National.

Before I start, I do understand that costs have to be covered for the venue. I also understand that it is a personal decision to attend.

Pre-Registration – 50.00, Early Bird – 50.00, 1 table - 60.00, awards banquet – 50.00, pre-convention reception – 30.00. So far that is 240.00 for one person even before you arrive. Add your spouse for the pre-registration, awards banquet and pre-convention reception and the cost is up to 370.00. At a minimum a person will need four nights hotels at a cost of 116.00 per night (not including taxes) – 464.00 and 5 days of meals. Since most hotels have free continental breakfasts I will only add a conservative 50.00 per day for lunch and dinner for a total of 250.00. So before you ever arrive, book flights if you have to fly, or buy gas to drive if you live close enough your costs are going to be at a minimum 1,084.00 plus taxes.

If you want to do some tourist items, have drinks with friends, and make the National a social visit, it just adds to the cost of attending.

Older members who are on retired and on fixed incomes find it hard to justify the costs of attending. Younger people who are starting their lives on their own, starting a family, etc., and are making a lower income cannot justify the indulgence of a hobby.

As suggested in the quote, if the BoD could actually think outside the box and come up with ideas to raise funds and lower costs for members, maybe, just maybe, membership would start increasing and members would stop grousing about increased dues and costs and current members might decide to stay instead of cancelling their memberships.
Razz Razz Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25173
Location: Boston, Ma




darrah wrote:
The banquet and social are not really necessary and admission and table fees are the only thing most would be concerned about. I would never consider paying for an 'early bird' entry as I spend plenty during the normal session. As for the hotel, food etc., well, that is what one would expect to pay when going on a trip or vacation. I have never been to Disney Land but do believe, based on friend's comments and internet searching, that a National Convention's costs would be considered quilt reasonable when compared to it. Some can afford to go and some can't and I suspect that is the way it has always been.

I personally think the banquet is a bit high and Early Bird fee is a scam for the greedy. Empty tables not being used should be resold after a four hour period unless the current holder has notified the registration desk of a delay.


In my opinion (sans the clock folks setup) I have always maintained a same opening time for everyone--let the members have at it--dealers , collectors, hobbyists, etc. Then after 2-3 hrs allow in the public to augment proceeds for the convention/costs, etc.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:35 am Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4416
Location: Melbourne Australia




Perhaps the national should be the one event a year where buying/selling takes a back seat and the emphisis is on other things.

Not exactly sure what those things might be but with all the other places you can buy and sell perhaps this one event needs to find a new main focus and a new reason for members to attend.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:03 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25173
Location: Boston, Ma




Other than money? Wink

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:07 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5010




Yeah - good luck with that.

The only reason I hear people talking about National is to Score something.

Nobody I know wants the social stuff!

I liked Jon's idea best, eliminate the regional and have 4 nationals a year in different parts of the country. NE, South, Midwest and West.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:44 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4416
Location: Melbourne Australia




Perhaps that is why the NAWCC is in decline.

The more places you can buy and sell the less you need them if that is all they are offering.

May be it is turning into the watch version of Cost Co.

Sad end for an organization that once promised so much to watch and clock collectors.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:04 am Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2258
Location: Frankfort, KY




StephanG wrote:
Perhaps the national should be the one event a year where buying/selling takes a back seat and the emphisis is on other things.


We already have that event-it's called the Ward Francillion symposium and it's 100% an educational event with no buying and selling.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25173
Location: Boston, Ma




In my opinion educational events need to be done before groups other than the nawcc with the hopes of attracting new memberships.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:02 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1552




Ben_hutcherson wrote:
StephanG wrote:
Perhaps the national should be the one event a year where buying/selling takes a back seat and the emphisis is on other things.


We already have that event-it's called the Ward Francillion symposium and it's 100% an educational event with no buying and selling.
Ben or anybody, is the symposium a money maker? Geno
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:32 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4416
Location: Melbourne Australia




OK then why not bite the bullet and have 2 levels of membership.
One for education/social stuff and one for commercial stuff.

Let the social members run the social side and let the traders run the marts, internet sales site etc.

Perhaps that way things may at least be better organized to suit the needs of the people attending or using those services.

At the moment they appear to be trying to be all things to all people with the result that very few are happy.

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